The effects of fat skis on moguls

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The effects of fat skis on moguls

Postby mogulmiles » Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:49 pm

I was skiing A-basin not long ago. I stopped at the top of a mogul run to ck it out. I was on my volkl mogul wall skis. While I was getting ready to go a young kid skied up on fat (100 mm) underfoot skis and took off down the run. He was in control, great absorbtion,turns and wt transfer, he was better then me in fact. I was a little bummed. I had the mogul skis for goodness sake. But my question is, Do you think the bumps will change with more and more people skiing fat skis? A friend of mine just got back from a Jackson Hole steep camp, and one of the coaches said he felt this to be the case.
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Re: The effects of fat skis on moguls

Postby Derkleiner » Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:37 am

The effect I see is moguls becoming farther apart with fat skis. Alot of the people on them make big GS turns in deep snow. Now with that being said, it depends heavily on the terrain as to the shape of the moguls. I see alot of people on fat skis, more often than not, traversing through bumps so you get alot of chopped off backsides ( I hate this). I personally can ski my old sir francis bacons at a 115 waist down the zipperline it can be done. As with shaped skis, it fully depends on your proficiency in the bumps as to whether or not you can make a fat ski work in moguls. The problem is most people absolutely blow it at bumps anyways and fat skis make it even harder to ski moguls. As time passes I only see the problem getting worse because the once a year skiers are going to be pushed onto fatter and fatter skis. Instead of moguls we'll have a bunch of ledges that are impossible to extend into. :x
I feel the more places I go the more squatchy this country feels.
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Re: The effects of fat skis on moguls

Postby mjskier » Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:49 pm

Not sure if it is due to fatter skis or different population of skiers, but the bumps at the Jane are noticeably wider spaced (with a lot of shark fins) than maybe 2 years ago.
About the only nice tight lines I have found is on Spike, and the top of Frenchman. Everything else has been kind of ugly. (I haven't gone up in 2 weeks, so maybe things have improved since)
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Re: The effects of fat skis on moguls

Postby bendtheski » Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:42 pm

I don't think it's as much an effect of fat skis as turn radius. People are making longer radius turns, especially before bumps develop. When the do start to form up, they are spaced further apart because people's turns are spaced further apart.

I can make bump turns on my 112 waisted Fat-ypus D-Senders, regardless of the spacing, but it's a lot easier when the bumps are soft. When the bumps are firm I'll either break out my 83mm waisted Solly Thrusters, or go look for something softer and flatter to ski.

Funny thing about turning 50 and having ACL replacement surgery; they both have a tendency to change your definition of fun, but then so do fat skis!
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Re: The effects of fat skis on moguls

Postby jack97 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:25 pm

bendtheski wrote:I don't think it's as much an effect of fat skis as turn radius. People are making longer radius turns, especially before bumps develop. When the do start to form up, they are spaced further apart because people's turns are spaced further apart.



IMO, this is due to ski shape, boots and the way it is taught. Vid below is sort of the benchmark of how PSIA wants it done. They are making use of the whole ski; from tip to tail on how it engages, transitions and releases each turn. Notice they are dropping the hip down for each turn. These types of turns take a while to make which means the apex of each turn are spaced further apart. In addition, boots are made more upright with more lateral support so that skiers just needs to tip and drop those hips to make that turn.





I rarely see skiers who do these type of turns... using the front of the skis with knee angulation to make a quick turn. This is becoming a lost art.

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Re: The effects of fat skis on moguls

Postby Yoranium238 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:44 pm

This little gem from Deneen demonstrates hands but what struck me was the tight turn drills in the flats.

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Re: The effects of fat skis on moguls

Postby bendtheski » Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:26 pm

At least a few of us here were making bump turns for survival before it became an official technique that PSIA could instruct (poorly). It's what you did in the 70' and 80's because bumps were just a fact of life for resort skiing just about anywhere. At some point it became more feasable for resorts to groom more terrain overnight, and because resorts rely so heavily on skiers who prefer groomed terrain, even over powder; well, that was that.

The industry obviously figured out a long time ago who's spending the most at resorts and on equipment, and it ain't us. We're lucky to get the few scraps they throw us by not grooming a small percentage of in-bounds terrain, but even at that, it's extremely unlikely that you're going to see zipper-lines form up for all the above reasons. (YMMV: Your Mountain May Vary)
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Re: The effects of fat skis on moguls

Postby bendtheski » Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:41 pm

Yoranium238 wrote:This little gem from Deneen demonstrates hands but what struck me was the tight turn drills in the flats.


I'm sorry, but I look at that and say "what an incredible waste of time"!

I mean it makes sense for Deneen (and he's very good at it), and anyone looking to improve their quickness edge to edge, but it also reminds me of countless early-season days on the W.R.O.D. trying to keep things interesting. Nowadays I just try to go blindingly fast, lay trenches and hope it snows soon.

Crap, I'm part of the problem!!! [:-O
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Re: The effects of fat skis on moguls

Postby B-Stead » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:19 pm

I think the moguls changed significantly when fat skis came out.

People are able to carve sweet turns. Skis are manufactured to make a turn, and the radius of that turn is set from the factory.

How I long for a bunch of idiots on 200s sliding down a slope that just got 8" of fresh. That was the recipe for moguls back in the day. When was the last time you saw moguls form "in one day" ? It almost never happens.

100% of the blame for no more moguls, or the poor shape of moguls, is due to the carving skis of the modern era. I am so grateful I was able to see and shred sweet moguls in the 80's and early 90's, before they all went away.

* Note - some exceptions. Sweet bumps form at Sugarbush and Mary Jane. I am guessing because of the natural and frequent snowfall, along with mid-weekers skiing short radius turns.

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Re: The effects of fat skis on moguls

Postby raclro » Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:27 pm

I have wondered about this too. We have skied at Mary Jane at least every other week since the 90s. The moguls certainly seem to be longer than they used to. I wonder if it is just my imagination, change of my skiing style, change in the way everyone else skis, improvement in my skiing, shorter and better skis, fatter skis, snowboards? Probably some of everything. I have been skiing the past 8 years on a narrow dedicated bump ski (Saloman 1080 mogul, and Rossignol Scratch), fairly short at 168. Before that I used K2 715 bump skis 190 cm long ( think Johnny Mosely Gold medal 1998). I pulled the K2s out a couple of weeks ago to see how they would handle now that I am a significantly better bump skier. Maybe it was the extraordinary amount of ski in front of my foot at 190, or perhaps just an off balance day (or maybe the shape of the mogul, that is what I blamed it on), but my bump skiing was set back decades on those skis that day. In the cafeteria at the base of Mary Jane they have several framed photos hanging on the walls, unchanged from the 80s. Check out the one showing nothing but moguls. I don't think you will see anything like it anywhere today, they just don't make moguls like they used to--- for better or worse.
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