Forward boot lean and balance

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Forward boot lean and balance

Postby mitch236 » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:05 pm

I asked this question elsewhere but didn't get any responses so here's the same question:

I've been told that my current boots are too upright. I also have an incredibly hard time staying out of the back seat. Is it possibly the boot's fault that I have trouble staying forward? I just bought a pair of Full Tilt Descendant 8's but haven't tried them out yet.
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Re: Forward boot lean and balance

Postby Old School » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:23 pm

Could be the case. as an experiment last wee I took out the forward lean cant's I had in my boots and was in the back seat all day. I found myself throwing my hands way forward to counter. Put them in the next day and everything felt good again. Just mho.
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Re: Forward boot lean and balance

Postby ben_bumping » Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:30 pm

I have been working desperately on staying forward and keeping my feet under me. I just switched to a Full Tilt Classic from a Lange 130 (the Lange was cut and pins out) and though I am staying forward a bit better with the softer flex I still have work to do. I believe the Langes were too stiff for me and that the FT's will prove beneficial, but it is definitely not something that just changes, at least for me. I might throw in some heel lifts too. Good luck!
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Re: Forward boot lean and balance

Postby mitch236 » Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:05 pm

Looks like I'll be skiing once more this season so I'll let you know if it helped.
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Re: Forward boot lean and balance

Postby vmpatterson » Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:36 pm

This year I went with the Full Tilt Seth Morrison's and changed the tongues to a 6 stiffness from the 10 tongue that came with the boot. I had put a question on the forum and the results suggested this combination. My finding are that this was a good choice. With my old Technica (one down from a racing boot) I was getting thrown into the back seat. With the FT 6 tongue I am not getting thrown back and if I do it much less and I have been able to recover. I also have used the higher of the two forward lean inserts. I understand I could use both of the two insert together but so far have not tried that. I have to say that I am still learning how to buckle the FT's. First thing was to get the customs inserts, I tried then without but had considerable problems.(I have a wide for-foot but narrow rear foot and high arch.). FT's say the Innovations linings have a build in custom foot bed but that didn't work for me. Second I found a problem in that when I tightened up the front buckle it forced the arch of the foot bed up to a point where it was quite painful. Loosening up the front buckle seems to have fixed that problem. I still probably need a little work on the heel but without reservation I can say the Seth Morrisons with the stiff sides and the 6 tongue have improve my bump skiing as I don't get into the back seat except on rare occasions. The great thing about FT is that you can change the tongues to more flex and avoid getting thrown into the back seat. The tongues cost $50 but in my opinion are a must have.

72 and having fun in the bumps. Hope this helps!

Vern
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Re: Forward boot lean and balance

Postby mjskier » Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:06 am

Re: switching from a 10 to a 6 flex pattern...
If you had the binding mounted with the 10, you might need to get the heel release readjusted to account for that.
I switched from my old Raichle to a new pair of FT with a flex 6 tongue and am nursing a sprained ankle as a result.
While skiing a chute I hit something which pulled my foot behind and put all the wight on the other foot. And before I had a chance to roll over my ski went under a hard bump and stopped cold. The heel didn't release, the boot folded and I hyper extended the ankle.
Fast forward 3 week, I got off rhythm and hit a bump harder than I wanted, and again the boot folded without the heel releasing.
I'm done being lazy, and switched the tongues from my old boots. No flex pattern on them, but they are noticeably stiffer.
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Re: Forward boot lean and balance

Postby mitch236 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:17 pm

That's an interesting point. If you decrease boot flex, perhaps you need to decrease the DIN setting on the rear binding. It makes sense although none of the DIN charts ask how stiff is your boot.
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Re: Forward boot lean and balance

Postby mjskier » Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:35 pm

Not sure how it fits with the DIN charts, but they are supposed to do a heel release test when they mount new bindings.
Seems to me that there is no way to set the heel release properly without taking the boot stiffness into consideration.
Maybe some shop rat can chime in?
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Re: Forward boot lean and balance

Postby skyline » Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:52 pm

mjskier wrote:I switched from my old Raichle to a new pair of FT with a flex 6 tongue and am nursing a sprained ankle as a result.
While skiing a chute I hit something which pulled my foot behind and put all the wight on the other foot. And before I had a chance to roll over my ski went under a hard bump and stopped cold. The heel didn't release, the boot folded and I hyper extended the ankle.

I don't know which model FT's you bought but here is my experience with FT's and their flexes. I bought a pair of 2015 Seth Morrisons with a 10 flex and found them very stiff, comparable to my 1995 Raichle Slalom Comps (which I skied for 20 yrs). I wanted a softer flex so put in a 6 flex tongue and now find the boot much more manageable. I also tried on the FT Classics with a 6 flex which felt like I was in a soft pair of work boots. Waay too soft for me. I then put in the 10 flex tongue into one Classic and a 6 flex into the Seth Morrison and flexed both at the same time. To my surprise I found the Classic with the 10 flex was still softer than the 6 flex Seth. I think a lot of the stiffness of the boot has to do with the liners. The liner in the Seth is much beefier. IMHO I don't think folding the boot is an issue with the Seth's even with the 6 flex. Hope that helps.
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Re: Forward boot lean and balance

Postby mjskier » Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:45 pm

That's an interesting observation. I always assumed that the only difference between all these models were the color, the liner, and the tongue.
But if the same tongue feels different on 2 different models, the rest of the shell must be different too. I have a hard time seeing how the liner would make any difference to the stiffness of the boot. The higher end intuitions might hold better, and not compress as much, but it is still a soft piece of material.
How much you tighten the buckle also influences how stiff the boot feels.

Anyway, I have a pair of 09 high five. Image
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Re: Forward boot lean and balance

Postby skyline » Thu Feb 18, 2016 4:23 pm

mjskier wrote:But if the same tongue feels different on 2 different models, the rest of the shell must be different too. I have a hard time seeing how the liner would make any difference to the stiffness of the boot. The higher end intuitions might hold better, and not compress as much, but it is still a soft piece of material.

That is what I also thought as my first choice was the Classics, but even with the 10 flex I found them to be too soft. Both the Seth and Classic shells seem to be the same as I believe the pieces are molded from the same plastics. The only difference between the two boots are the liners. Go figure!
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Re: Forward boot lean and balance

Postby sunshine 50 » Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:49 pm

I ski in a pair of Seths with a 10 tongue and rarely back seat. I love the boots but I'm 198 lbs so that may make a difference.
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